Seized 8n update

Been soaking the cylinders on this 8n for a couple weeks now and no progress. I took the starter off and prying on the ring gear it doesn’t budge. Took the exhaust manifold off and it looks pretty crusty in there. Trying to rock it in 4 gear also doesn’t budge. I’m thinking at this point I’ll go ahead and remove the head although I don’t know what that could revival. It will roll while in nueteral and it will roll while in gear with the clutch in. Although it won’t shift into 1st or 3rd gears. Is this for sure a seized engine or could I be overlooking something ? Do I have any other options now other than pulling the engine?

Any and all help will be appreciated as this is my first tractor and I was hoping I could get it running. It ran when parked 8 years ago.

Sounds to me that you have a seized engine with the gears sitting in a position that you can't shift in to right now. Gotta concentrate on the engine first. If it is seized then you try the penetrating oil method. My suggestion is kano Kroll. Its the absolute best penetrating oil I've found. Once the engine is loose, fo a compression test to determine the shape of the rings and depending on the result, rebuild.

https://www.eastwood.com/aerokroil-16-5-oz-aerosol.html

After rereading your post, I'd almost suggest splitting the tractor so you can unbolt the main and rod bearings and beat the old pistons and sleeves out with the trusty BFH. Those sleeves are replaceable so the issues with boring are totally avoided. Might as well inspect the valve train and prepare to replace that as well...

With the pto engaged you might be able to turn the pto shaft by hand and see if it will go into 1st/3rd.

With the pto engaged the pto shaft will not turn by hand.

If you put the transmission in neutral you should be able to turn the pto.

(quoted from post at 21:02:22 09/17/20) Been soaking the cylinders on this 8n for a couple weeks now and no progress. I took the starter off and prying on the ring gear it doesn t budge. Trying to rock it in 4 gear also doesn t budge.

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It will roll while in nueteral and it will roll while in gear with the clutch in.

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This is a sign that neither the clutch or the transmission is frozen / locked up

Is this for sure a seized engine

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Yup

Took the exhaust manifold off and it looks pretty crusty in there.

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Of course, on an engine that sat this long.
Should be seeing oil there though, that you have been putting enough in the cylinders. If not, you may need to be adding more.

Oil / ATF in the cylinders every few days, will find it's way into the manifold, through open valves. Usually two of the pistons stop at or near top dead center. This means that most oil put into the cylinders rolls off to open valves and ends up through the manifold into the carburetor and / or exhaust system. The valves are directly below the spark plug holes.



Although it won't shift into 1st or 3rd gears.

As [b:493e4bf222]Ultradog[/b:493e4bf222] was alluding to I believe, could just be the line up of the gears. Wouldn't worry about this.

At this point I'll go ahead and remove the head although I don't know what that could revival.

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Will reveal the tops of the pistons and valves. Not much else. If you cannot free the engine up prior, pulling the head will allow you to strategically use more oil [u:493e4bf222][i:493e4bf222](I'd be using [b:493e4bf222]ATF[/b:493e4bf222])[/i:493e4bf222][/u:493e4bf222]. Then you could always rig up a pusher to apply pressure to the tops of the pistons.
Careful though, could end up with at minimum bent valves, or at worst bent or broken connecting rods / pistons / rings.

Do I have any other options now other than pulling the engine?

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Yes, more patience, or as mentioned above about removing cylinder head, then more patience.

If nothing frees up eventually, then your at where [b:493e4bf222]520 pipefabricator[/b:493e4bf222] mentioned.

When / If you get that far, be ready to spend some money!

Here's a link for Kano labs.
Kano labs, Kroil

With the pto engaged the pto shaft will not turn by hand.

I first used sea foam deep creep ,one can over a couple days, then used atf and acetone,couple quarts, then moved on to diesel fuel. Two of the
cylinders the fluid just runs down into the exhaust manifold ,the other two cylinders I can fill up and it takes a couple hours to seep in but it doesn’t come
out into the exhaust manifold. Don’t know where it’s going.

It's most likely going in the oil pan

Trz,After it has ben soaking awhile, put it in 4th gear and with a helper one on each rear tire.Rock it real hard back and forth and watch the fan for movement

Den Ms. I’ve done that and the fan moves just a tiny bit but then just
springs back , it won’t rotate at all.

trz,Rock it just as hard backwards as forewords.If the fan is moving don't give up.Are you using 2 people or more,ROCK the hell out of it.Rock backwards a couple times hard first as if you tried the starter first it could have it stuck from forward rotation.Do you have the valve covers off and sprayed down the valves with like PB Blaster.

One more thing to consider. Years ago I had a dozer that had set for some time and I couldn't turn it over. The valves were stuck open so the piston was stopped against the valve. I managed with liquid wrench to get the valves to move and after a bit of work, got it to turn over and actually start. I haven't pulled apart an 8N engine so don't know if this is a possibility but at least something to consider I guess..

(quoted from post at 18:14:29 09/18/20) One more thing to consider. Years ago I had a dozer that had set for some time and I couldn't turn it over. The valves were stuck open so the piston was stopped against the valve. I managed with liquid wrench to get the valves to move and after a bit of work, got it to turn over and actually start. I haven't pulled apart an 8N engine so don't know if this is a possibility but at least something to consider I guess..

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an not happen on N engine

One more thing to consider. Years ago I had a dozer that had set for some time and I couldn't turn it over. The valves were stuck open so the piston was stopped against the valve. I managed with liquid wrench to get the valves to move and after a bit of work, got it to turn over and actually start. I haven't pulled apart an 8N engine so don't know if this is a possibility but at least something to consider I guess..

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The pistons cannot hit the valves on an 8N. It is a flathead. The valves are in the block.

I do have the valve covers off and have just started spraying the
valves. As far as rocking it , I have just been trying to do it myself and
I admit , I don’t get a whole lot of hard rocking motion going on. I’ll
see if I can get some help.

Thanks

I pulled the head on mine and used a 4x4 and a 32 oz. ball pien hammer every day for a month after I got home from work. I put tranny fluid in the cylinders when it leaked out. I should add the tractor sat for about 30 years under a lean to roof. I didn't want to rebuild mine unless I had to. Eventually it loosened up enough that I was able to pop it loose at the flywheel with a stout long screwdriver. After that, I honed each cylinder with a bead hone. Today it only smokes under heavy load and it isn't bad at all. Patience is the key.