Block heater question

Canuk · Dec 9, 2017

Hello folk's, I have been reading about how effective the inline water block heaters are at warming the engine and have a question about how to install it.

I have a 2N which before I got it ran without a thermostat. Eventually the head/valves plugged up with soot and carbon so I cleaned it up, replaced the head gasket and added a thermostat.

With this in mind, I am reading the block heater should be installed on the engine side of the lower hose pointing up towards the motor so that it will direct the heated water/coolant into the engine.

My question is.....would this not direct the heated water up to the closed thermostat and not get past it to heat the block? Is it possible the water heater will get hot enough to open the thermostat and thus heat the engine?

Must be something I am not getting?

Appreciate some opinions on if this is correct.

Cheers

wellmax99 · Dec 9, 2017

I just when with a magnetic attached oil pan heater,
You plug it up, attach it to the oil pan, the oil is warm, motor spins over much easier, unplug it and take it off, drive tractor,

No plumbing necessary, tractor is stored in the barn all the time so electric plug is close by,

I ask around, this method was the easiest way of heating the engine, no cords, plumbing plugs to get loose or leak, etc,

Canuk · Dec 9, 2017

Thanks wellmax99, I have the magnetic style as well which helps a bit. I'd like the water/block heated for a faster start up.

Bob · Dec 9, 2017

"would this not direct the heated water up to the closed thermostat and not get past it to heat the block?"

You are heating the coolant in the lower radiator hose. The T-stat is in the UPPER radiator hose, so NO WORRIES.

Canuk · Dec 9, 2017

Thanks Bob, is there any way for the coolant to bypass the thermostat so there is circulation around and through the engine?

It seems to me the pump would pressurize the coolant through the engine and against the thermostat and then just cavitate because it is unable to have flow.

There must be something I am not getting about how the unit is set up.

tractorguy2 · Dec 9, 2017

Lower hose heaters are a joke. They heat the radiator not the
block. You need either a tank heater or a magnetic pan heater.

Both styles work. The tank heater will require plumbing and
difficult to find room on the N tractors to mount the heater.

The magnetic heater you just stick it to the pan and plug it in.

Blue Jay · Dec 9, 2017

The water will warm the engine by convection, it will warm the engine without the thermostat opening. If the thermostat opened or was not there the water would thermosiphon thru the radiator and cool it back down.

Jimmyjack · Dec 9, 2017

Lower hose heaters might be a joke, but here in Wis. the joke makes all the difference in the world when it get 20 below. I have
the on my tractors and swear by them.

Dell (WA) · Dec 9, 2017

Canuk.......may I offer a more better solution? Heat yer carbie/manifold. (seriously) Starting in cold weather is always a carbie problem, notta block water problem. Just shine a 60-watt lite-bulb, or one of yer magnetic heaters on the carbie. Why is it a carbie problem? The very act of carburation, turning liquid into vapor requires heat or sucks it outta the air. (physics 101) And iff'n yer cold driving yer tractor, put insulated coveralls or snow-mobilers suit on ...and... wear a HAT to keep yer toes warm. And final note, ALL N-engines don't have room inside the block water jacket/freeze plug fer a heater. So yeah, ittza lower radiator hoze fer heater and upper radiator hoze fer thermostat. Now why are my fingers cold?.......Dell

Canuk · Dec 9, 2017

Dell, I know you are right and have seen it also. Choke it, or squirt fuel in the carb till it is flooded and eventually some of it combusts enough to stumble to a start.

I'll try the block heater against the carb (outside), to see what difference it makes. If that works the old ladies hair dryer might go missing.

Thanks all, great to have such knowledgeable resources around who also enjoy playing with these 75 year old gems.

cowdog · Dec 9, 2017

I have used lower radiator hose heaters for 50 years in Mt. It gets pretty friggen cold here if you didn't know. They work great. They heat the coolant in the block if you follow the directions for installing them. Don't over think this and worry about the thermostat. If it gets warm enough it will just open.

Scott(Ks.) · Dec 9, 2017

Years ago I used my 8N to feed cattle in the winter. I also worked in town, so the tractor "had" to start. I used a lower radiator hose heater and a drop light laying on the manifold. I had a heavy timer and set it for about four hours before I needed it in the morning. The tractor started like summertime.

Now it stays in the garage waiting for snow.

L.Fure · Dec 10, 2017

Dell (WA) has the right idea. You can even use a 125 watt heat lamp like the ones used for keeping baby pigs warm during cold weather, or a 250 watt heat lamp would be better. Use one of those heat light fixtures that has a spring loaded clamp on it. Clamp it to the edge of the hood, and aim it towards the engine on the carburetor side. Leave it plugged in 24/7 so it is always ready when ever you need to use the tractor.

Canuk · Dec 10, 2017

Thanks. Ha, I live in Ontario where pay .35 cents per kwh (power used + delivery +taxes), for electricity so leaving the lights on would be affordable.

I have a heat lamp as you describe and will give it a go, also have a small piece of R foil to trap the heat in the area.

Much appreciate the suggestions

L.Fure · Dec 10, 2017

(quoted from post at 12:33:47 12/10/17)
Thanks. Ha, I live in Ontario where pay .35 cents per kwh (power used + delivery +taxes), for electricity so leaving the lights on would be affordable.

I have a heat lamp as you describe and will give it a go, also have a small piece of R foil to trap the heat in the area.

Much appreciate the suggestions

You really don't have to wrap anything. Since a heat lamp is radiant heat it will heat whatever it's aimed at.

cowdog · Dec 10, 2017

I have used lower radiator hose heaters for 50 years in Mt. It gets pretty friggen cold here if you didn't know. They work great. They heat the coolant in the block if you follow the directions for installing them. Don't over think this and worry about the thermostat. If it gets warm enough it will just open.

Canuk · Dec 20, 2017

(quoted from post at 10:16:35 12/09/17) Canuk.......may I offer a more better solution? Heat yer carbie/manifold. (seriously) Starting in cold weather is always a carbie problem, notta block water problem. Just shine a 60-watt lite-bulb, or one of yer magnetic heaters on the carbie. Why is it a carbie problem? The very act of carburation, turning liquid into vapor requires heat or sucks it outta the air. (physics 101) And iff'n yer cold driving yer tractor, put insulated coveralls or snow-mobilers suit on ...and... wear a HAT to keep yer toes warm. And final note, ALL N-engines don't have room inside the block water jacket/freeze plug fer a heater. So yeah, ittza lower radiator hoze fer heater and upper radiator hoze fer thermostat. Now why are my fingers cold?.......Dell

Dell (WA), you hit the nail right on the head and I hope that others see this to benefit from your advise like I did.

Today I hooked up a heat lamp and pointed it at the carb/intake manifold for about 30 minutes and she fired like it was a summer day, maybe even better.

My old girl used to take a shot of fuel, or ether to get going below -10, today she fired right up and stayed running.

I sure recommend others try this and your starter motor will thank you.

Thanks everyone for your input.

L.Fure · Dec 20, 2017

Back in my youth I had to get a tractor started to haul manure out to the field about every other day. Wasn't smart enough then to use a heat lamp, but instead would get a bucket of very hot water from the milk house. I would pour the hot water slowly onto the intake manifold and carburetor. Then hit the starter button. This would be the way I started the beast most of the winter. By the time I got back the water would be mostly evaporated off the carburetor. One time it was warm enough I could start the engine without the hot water, but it was still cold enough to freeze any water that was left on the carburetor linkage. The engine started with the butterfly shaft frozen in the wide open position. That sure was a surprise.

TraktorFreunde · Dec 21, 2017

Anyone have any experience with Kat's magnetic heaters? I'm looking to use it mostly on the Hydraulic side of things. Would the 200 or 300 watt heat "fit" better on the underside of the back end? If the larger one doesn't really touch enough surface area, I'd rather go with the cheaper small one. Thanks

Abbby · Jan 1, 2018

I concur with Jimmyjack. Call the lower heater a joke but the joke works at -20F here in WI, IMO the Katz lower radiator hose is the only way to go. Some of the nay sayers think the coolant must be circulated for it to work. I plug mine in about an hour before starting at -20F. Touch hand on head and it feels warm. Tractor starts right up like 40F. A little tight fit installing but well worth it. I tried a magnetic one on the pan and really not a good place on the N to put and did not seem to heat much at all. So try to take it off while it is hot. Forget it! Again my opinion and experience.

TraktorFreunde · Jan 1, 2018

I didn't get any responses in regards to Kat's, so I just picked one up to try (200 watt). .....Well, not worth it. It simply does not heat enough (it was 10 degrees out). Maybe on some thinner steel oil pan or something. I doubt the 300 watt would work much better.

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