2N modifications

Brian60950 · Apr 24, 2017

Has anyone ever done this?

I drilled a hole in my intake tube, placed a 3/8" nut over the hole and welded it all the way around. For the plug I shortened a bolt so it won't stick in past the nut, allowing room for a washer and gasket I made from an old inner tube.

Purpose is so next winter if I have any starting issues I can pull the bolt out and spray ether in there.

Brian60950 · Apr 24, 2017

Clifford B. · Apr 25, 2017

Should oughta work.....
Personally I don't like to use ether cuz they git hooked on the stuff and want it all the time...... 8)

Tall T · Apr 25, 2017

Brian,

You're a regular Rube Goldberg!
I know because I did the exact same thing, almost
on my old Chevy van intake.

I had to make some plumbing to sit on my carb air horn, where a pipe ran over to the glove box, where I put the air cleaner.
I cut the end out of the glove box and fan activity blows more air
into the compartment.

All because I didn't have the original updraft carb for this van.

Anyway, I installed a brass cup with a stop cock above the carb so I could prime it if need be, without taking the air pipe off.

I'll take a photo tomorrow if the creek don't rise.

T

Skip Burney · Apr 25, 2017

I like that idea mind if I steal it from ya?

Ultradog MN · Apr 25, 2017

Diesels yes but ether won't hurt a gasser.
Especially a low compression flattie like
an N.
And they don't so much get hooked on the
stuff as much as it can just outright kill
a diesel.
Photo shows a piston I pulled out of a
tractor a couple of weeks ago. Blew the
ring lands right out of it. This was the
worst one but the other 2 were cracked.
Was a Very low houred engine too.
Pretty sad - and why they call it devil
juice.

Tall T · Apr 25, 2017

Jerry,

Glad you clarified that!
I was wondering about the ether warning when it came up in other threads, cause I've used ether for years on roto tiller spring startups and on other old gassers over the years -- at least until I fixed whatever was makin' something hard to start. Last time I had to spray, was before I replaced my RotoTiller Briggs' carb fuel pipe w/ screen.

Terry

DrLarryE · Apr 25, 2017

Question from someone who knows nothing about engines.....Why/How does ether damage a diesel engine so much?

Kirk-NJ · Apr 25, 2017

Most of the intake manifold have a plug in them as seen here on my 2n with surge bucket milker.

Kirk

Kirk-NJ · Apr 25, 2017

You might want to check your intake manifold first to see if it has a plug. It could save you a lot of trouble.

Kirk

Ultradog MN · Apr 25, 2017

I'm no expert either but here's my best
guess.
Ether is very volatile.
That's why it is used as a starting aid.
It's even more volatile when compressed.
On a gasser with 6? 9? to one compression
ratio it will light off pretty easily.
Use too much of it though and it will just
foul or depress the spark like gas would.
But take a diesel with something like a 16
to 1 compression ratio and use too much of
it - and no spark to foul - you have
seriously overfueled that cylinder. So when
you compress that mixture it goes off with
4? 8? 10? times the explosive force of a
normal fuel/air mixture. That's when you see
busted ring lands and even the tops of
pistons blown out.
I do use a bit of ether to start my diesel
in cold weather but I'm pretty careful with
it. I never spray it INTO the air intake but
BY the air intake, such that probably 90% of
the squirt is actually wasted and the engine
only gets a whiff of the stuff. Normally
that's all it takes to get one to light off.

Tim PloughNman Daley RIP · Apr 25, 2017

If you must use ether to start you have greater issues that need to be addressed. You can also just loosen the fuel line at the brass carb intake elbow and spray a dab in there then replace line, wiping off any excess that my have spilled before cranking engine.

Tim

Ken(Ark) · Apr 25, 2017

(quoted from post at 23:29:26 04/24/17) Has anyone ever done this?

I drilled a hole in my intake tube, placed a 3/8" nut over the hole and welded it all the way around. For the plug I shortened a bolt so it won't stick in past the nut, allowing room for a washer and gasket I made from an old inner tube.

Purpose is so next winter if I have any starting issues I can pull the bolt out and spray ether in there.

A+

Weld a big wing nut on it and you will not need any tools .

On the starter fluid topic . I don't think diesels (or gas) motors get "Hooked" on starting fluid . I think they get tired and loose compression past the rings . Then at low rpm cranking speed they have a hard time building up enough compression to start a cold motor . At 40 degrees my 3 cylinder diesel spins over a lot slower than at 70 degrees .

Caryc · Apr 25, 2017

(quoted from post at 21:29:26 04/24/17) Has anyone ever done this?

I drilled a hole in my intake tube, placed a 3/8" nut over the hole and welded it all the way around. For the plug I shortened a bolt so it won't stick in past the nut, allowing room for a washer and gasket I made from an old inner tube.

Purpose is so next winter if I have any starting issues I can pull the bolt out and spray ether in there.

Good idea? I've used ether a few times on my 8N when it was hard to start. Like when it has sat for a long time and the battery is a bit low. But I've always just sprayed it in the louvered plate where the carb gets it's air in the first place. I'm thinking that spraying it in a hole in the intake pipe would give it a much stronger dose than spraying it in the louvered plate. It always worked for me.

Tall T · Apr 25, 2017

Cary,

You wrote:
[color=blue:f1dc7c231a] "I'm thinking that spraying it in a hole in the intake pipe would give it a much stronger dose than spraying it in the louvered plate. It always worked for me."[/color:f1dc7c231a]

Not sure what you mean by "louvered plate" but if you mean the choke plate or the throttle plate, I disagree.

The further away from the air horn, as in Brian's plug, the more of a volume of vaporizing air there is to dilute the sprayed dose. The most concentrated hit relative to air mix would be spraying directly into the intake manifold.

T

Caryc · Apr 25, 2017

(quoted from post at 12:28:13 04/25/17) Cary,

You wrote:
[color=blue:1603567745] "I'm thinking that spraying it in a hole in the intake pipe would give it a much stronger dose than spraying it in the louvered plate. It always worked for me."[/color:1603567745]

Not sure what you mean by "louvered plate" but if you mean the choke plate or the throttle plate, I disagree.

The further away from the air horn, as in Brian's plug, the more of a volume of vaporizing air there is to dilute the sprayed dose. The most concentrated hit relative to air mix would be spraying directly into the intake manifold.

T

I mean the louvered "cover" up on the hood where the air cleaner gets it's air in the first place.

Tall T · Apr 25, 2017

Brian,

As threatened, here's my Goldberg carb primer for gas or ether.

Ken,
Look Ma, no tools!

Tall T · Apr 25, 2017

Cary,

Right on!
Louvered it definitely is.

Sorry,
T

Kirk-NJ · Apr 25, 2017

You must be thinking of an 8n.

Caryc · Apr 25, 2017

(quoted from post at 13:02:15 04/25/17) You must be thinking of an 8n.

Yeah, it's an 8N. But the 2N air cleaner has to get it's air someplace as well. Can't you just spray it in there?

Ultradog MN · Apr 25, 2017

Is that a 10 gallon can of ether hooked directly to the intake manifold?

Brian60950 · Apr 25, 2017

I've sprayed it into the top of the intake stack before, with no effect.

There's the oil bath air cleaner and I think the ether gets lost in there.

Mine has the plug on the intake manifold, I'm assuming it's for a gauge. I think removing it to spray ether in there would make it even harder to start because now you've decreased the vacuum required to suck gas through the carb.

Regarding the comment about engines getting addicted to ether, .. I believe that was a joke.

Caryc · Apr 25, 2017

(quoted from post at 15:09:56 04/25/17) I've sprayed it into the top of the intake stack before, with no effect.

There's the oil bath air cleaner and I think the ether gets lost in there.

Mine has the plug on the intake manifold, I'm assuming it's for a gauge. I think removing it to spray ether in there would make it even harder to start because now you've decreased the vacuum required to suck gas through the carb.

Regarding the comment about engines getting addicted to ether, .. I believe that was a joke.

The 8N has about the same oil bath air cleaner and the ether works when I spray it in there.

Ultradog MN · Apr 25, 2017

Addicted to ether is a fairly common
phrase actually.
Generally means the top end is so worn
that it won't start without a shot.

Brian60950 · Apr 25, 2017

Addicted to ether is a fairly common
phrase actually.
Generally means the top end is so worn
that it won't start without a shot.

Never heard it before.

I have a wood chipper like that but it's because some idiot put wood screws in the spark plug hole and it scratched up the cylinder wall. It'll only start with ether, but then it runs just fine.

HFJ · Apr 25, 2017

[i:3de73c0d9c]We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station.

- Hunter S. Thompson[/i:3de73c0d9c]

Brian60950 · Apr 25, 2017

(quoted from post at 18:25:17 04/25/17) [i:9a35a1836f]We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station.

- Hunter S. Thompson[/i:9a35a1836f]

Hunter S Thompson does not seem like a good role model for kids. :shock:

Royse · Apr 25, 2017

Ether is not "Devil juice" on a gas engine but I would fix the
carb and fuel delivery system so that it is not needed.

If it were needed, it would have came from the factory with a
button on the dash to inject it like early diesels did. Yes, they did.
It was normally called a "cold start option".

With the advent of glow plugs and other heating systems, ether
became a BIG no-no. As it should have with those systems.

Brian60950 · Apr 26, 2017

Ether is not "Devil juice" on a gas engine but I would fix the
carb and fuel delivery system so that it is not needed.

There isn't much of a solution after I leave it parked outside and forgetting it exists until there's two feet of snow on the ground and it's 10 below outside and it's laminated in ice.

Scott(Ks.) · Apr 26, 2017

I did basically the same thing, only I just used a short self tapping metal screw. I can unscrew it with my fingers, give it a short shot and replace the screw. It works well.

Royse · Apr 26, 2017

(quoted from post at 05:13:58 04/26/17)

Ether is not "Devil juice" on a gas engine but I would fix the
carb and fuel delivery system so that it is not needed.

Click to expand...

There isn't much of a solution after I leave it parked outside and forgetting it exists until there's two feet of snow on the ground and it's 10 below outside and it's laminated in ice.

I keep mine under a roof but without heat in Michigan.
If it were to get covered with ice, other than binding linkages, I
don't have any fear that it would start as expected without ether.

Brian60950 · Apr 30, 2017

I keep mine under a roof but without heat in Michigan.
If it were to get covered with ice, other than binding linkages, I
don't have any fear that it would start as expected without ether.

Well you should've seen the state of my 72 year old factory wiring. I'm surprised it even worked at all.

Brian60950 · Apr 30, 2017

Here's another modification I did today.

I removed my ignition wire tube and made this to replace it.

Reason is with the 12 volt conversion, the belt follows a slightly different path and it was really hard to secure the spark plug wires away from the belt, with the tube bringing them out towards the right.

I still don't like how the #3 and #4 wires are so close to the water pump pulley, even zip tied to the coil bail.

2N modifications

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