Operating a single hose hyd. cylinder and removal

Texasmark1 · Apr 18, 2021

I have a Ford 538 MOCO and I decided to run it with a Fore 3910. The cylinders are pressure to extend, gravity to collapse.

I have an aftermarket bidirectional valve mounted on top of the mid section where you remove the cover plate and install hydraulic 3rd function controllers which connect to a pair of inlet/outlets at the rear for implement operation. I connected my single hose to both ports in an attempt to get the valve to dump all the fluid so that the cylinders would collapse fully when in the dump position.

Plugging into the top hose, going up is fine, but moving the lever to dump and it dumps but not all the way down. Swapping the implement hose to the other tractor connector, gets me the same positive lift function and will slowly go all the way down but to do it you can hear a hydraulic unloading valve open allowing the fluid to slowly allow the cylinder to drop fully.

The position of the position control lever makes no difference one way or the other...including lift arms all the way up, and the little flow control (I guess) that is part of the controller assy. doesn't seem to have any effect.

While I have you thinking about this implement in the Ford section, there are 2 different styles of lift cylinders posted in the service manual. One is the top cap unscrews to get the ram out and the other has a locking ring at the end of the rod that has to be removed for the rod to be removed from the cylinder. Instructions, best I can determine, say to access via the 3/8 fluid inlet/outlet port where the hose is connected. It says to reach in with a flat blade screwdriver and dislodge it............this totally makes no sense thinking about what you are wanting to do and just what do you expect to gain via a tapped 3/8 fluid port. Clarifications would be appreciated.

Tx Jim · Apr 18, 2021

It's my understanding that position control aka draft control is only associated with 3 pt hitch but not associated with scv aka remote hyd control.

Does this one way cylinder respond correctly on a different tractor?

Will cylinder rod fully enter barrel with engine not running?

All my tractors including a Ford 6700 operate a one way cylinder just fine.

showcrop · Apr 18, 2021

That sounds like a problem that I had with an IH mower and Case tractor. It turned out that the hose tips were incompatible. Before I figured it out I had to hold the valve handle and "feather" it to enable the header to drop all the way.

Sean in PA · Apr 18, 2021

It's best to use a control valve that is configured properly for a single acting cylinder. Some of the Ford remote valves, and some of the after market ones have a screw you can turn to change one of the spools from double to single acting mode.

Destroked 450 · Apr 18, 2021

My neighbor had the same issue with his 5030, the mower had a standard coupler with the round ball end, we replaced it with a extended tip coupler and the mower bar lowered properly

JMOR · Apr 18, 2021

(quoted from post at 08:56:48 04/18/21) It's best to use a control valve that is configured properly for a single acting cylinder. Some of the Ford remote valves, and some of the after market ones have a screw you can turn to change one of the spools from double to single acting mode.

his Sean in PA post is your answer, Mark.

Keith Williams · Apr 18, 2021

Texasmark1,
I had an o-ring go out on a combine cyl. The ends are welded on those and they were pressure up gravity down.
The hoses were 1/2, but I was able to pop the ring out of the grove on the end of the cyl rod thru the fitting with a screw driver blade.
I was even able to get it back together thru that small opening.
Remember that is how they put it together.
HTH
Keith

Texasmark1 · Apr 18, 2021

Trying a different tractor is an interesting point. I have a 3000 and don't have the control mounted on the plate. I have the 2 port 1/2 pipe
adapter and plumb that over to a separate Cross, open center, single control for one pair of outlets. It would not be a problem to hook it up
and see how it works....will do tomorrow. Thanks on that idea.

Will cylinder rod fully enter barrel with engine not running? If you are asking can I mate the implement to either tractor outlet with the
engine off, yes, that's how i mate them.

I have a log splitter cylinder with hoses that is separate from the power unit and its 2 port. I'll run the 3910 over to it and see if it operates it
back and forth which would tell me that the control is correct and will/should work on single cylinders.

In thinking through the logic of the control, each port supplies fluid when the selector lever is in it's side for doing so and in the process, the
internal spool moves over and opens the opposite side to allow return fluid to go to the fluid sump......just like what should happen with a
single cylinder connected to the lift port on the tractor.

I'll run those tests tomorrow and check back.
Thanks

Texasmark1 · Apr 18, 2021

I had the one that was easier to get apart. Crazy way to hold a cylinder together but it worked. I got both cylinders rebuilt today and yes they needed packing big time. Needed a goof flushing too.....rather than go to all the trouble in the manual, working alone and inexperienced, I just got my Acetylene torch out and cut access holes in the sheet metal and that worked great. I'll probably get something to cover the holes and glue it on to keep the rain out. I don't need to close the holes for structural reasons and as far as looks....it already looked like it was on it's last leg.
Thanks.

Texasmark1 · Apr 18, 2021

The unit is aftermarket as I said and is not the one with the big spring. I had that one initially and the return spring design was clumsy and I
chunked it and bought another type that is very smooth and positive in it's positioning........but it doesn't seem to work where I mowed last
year with the big spring one....now that I think about it.

There may be someting to the coupler mating as you mentioned. The coupler on the MOCO is the extended tip, pressure relieving type, not
the ball. I don't know what type is on the tractor with this new unit...I never paid any attention to Female attributes when buying Pioneer
couplers over the years.....it didn't seem to matter...course this MOCO is my first single cylinder(s) to operate.

I have some ball connectors and tomorrow will swap and see what happens.
Thanks.

Texasmark1 · Apr 18, 2021

So there is a compatibility problem in 2 of 4 answers and that makes perfect sense. As stated above, will swap to a ball and see what
happens.
Thanks.

Destroked 450 · Apr 18, 2021

Normally the ball type is the one we have issues with on some of the newer type valves.
I'm not fully understanding what type of remote valve you have, my factory and Tisco remotes have the screw for single action cylinders but will work a single action cylinder with the screw in double action position
Can you post a photo of your valve.

Texasmark1 · Apr 19, 2021

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Spool-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Remote-Control-Valve-Kit-2000-3000-More/392192854857?
hash=item5b50840b49:g:8icAAOSwsrhe0BHW

Texasmark1 · Apr 19, 2021

Welllllllll call it blind luck and superstition.......when I overhauled the cylinders, I was required to take the tension off the deck tensioning/float springs. I counted the revs as I unscrewed them and both sides were about the same 65 number of turns.....I bought this thing last year and used it at least once. I had some things to fix, like put a new drive belt on the wobble box.....a bear of a task. But part of my initial going through the machine was to set the float tension so that x pounds of force would lift the front of the cutter assembly. I did it by feel, not insturmentation....so I did touch the spring tension from what the PO had set.

I did all the things we talked about except changing connector types which I didn't change. It seems the problem with the skid plate not dropping all the way on the driven side of the MOCO was that in setting the spring tension on THIS machine both sides are NOT equal in tension....as applied by counting turns. I backed off the driven side 10 turns and the skid plate gently touched the ground as it was designed to do. Checking the lift on both corners manually, I couldn't tell any difference in lift and the deck floated comfortably. So much for that!

Other problems I had apparently had to do with getting all the old fluid flushed out and what I did this morning must have done the trick because now the cylinders perform like new. Yeaaaaaay.

One observation in the process. I used my 3000 and it's 7 gpm pump (think I recall 7 gal at 1800 rpm) to initially power my 36x4 log splitting cylinder and it was slow as molasses plus either required an operator in the tractor while I worked the wood or I had to go back and forth if worked alone. One of the reasons for abandoning that method was the slow speed and the change I detailed in this posting solved that problem. Well in hooking the 3910 to the cylinder today, even though it has a high capacity pump..located near your right heel sitting in the seat, I obviously forgot just how slow Ford tractor pumps are.

Well thanks for the input and YT cops can chalk up another success story. Grin.

showcrop · Apr 19, 2021

My New Holland needed a lot more tension on the far end so if I had adjusted by turns my inner end wouldn't have come down.

Texasmark1 · Apr 19, 2021

Keith,
I thought I wanted to get into the grain business. A friend had an old very worn out (as usual) JD 95 and I waa stupid enough to give him $1800 for it but I was young and naive as the saying goes....not really, just another farming venture. Before I had finished I thought I had been exposed to every kind of cylinder that was made by man.....not quite. This Ford was different.

My first outing was an irregular field with very large creosote utility poles crossing the center. I was running a 24 ft. header. I was combining oats and he had an oat bin in his barn and you just drive up, swing the auger over and dump. Well that seemed simple enough so I had this brilliant idea to just leave the auger in the discharge position.........bet you know what's next......

So out I go for another round and this took me past one of the poles....my first real challenge. I got the header around the pole and was patting myself on the back for an accomplished learning curve when I hear this ear shattering CRASH!!!!!!! What on earth could that be, I got the header past the pole......looked over my left shoulder and there it is just a DANGLiNG, my unloader auger.

In finishing the field, the owner held a piece of corrugated tin between the combine and the bin, forming a chute and I dumped into that. I let the thing sit and being a small town nearby, a local guy who was a semi-BTO at the time offered me $900 for it as it sat, where it sat. I gladly took it.

My next and last combine was a working unit, needing nothing really, MF 7 something...765 comes to mind....diesel engine, cab and air, 24' steel header and trailer. Nice rig. Enjoyed running that......you know there is just something about harvesting a crop in a combine that really just gets to you. Amazing feeling as surely you well know. The story about that was that I bought it South of Dallas and drove it 90 miles one Saturday to my farm NE of Dallas after having driven the 90 miles down to get it. That's another story as my son was supposed to be the wide load scout and he had other things on his mind. But I made it and that was that.

JMOR · Apr 19, 2021

(quoted from post at 20:20:12 04/19/21) Keith,
I thought I wanted to get into the grain business. A friend had an old very worn out (as usual) JD 95 and I waa stupid enough to give him $1800 for it but I was young and naive as the saying goes....not really, just another farming venture. Before I had finished I thought I had been exposed to every kind of cylinder that was made by man.....not quite. This Ford was different.

My first outing was an irregular field with very large creosote utility poles crossing the center. I was running a 24 ft. header. I was combining oats and he had an oat bin in his barn and you just drive up, swing the auger over and dump. Well that seemed simple enough so I had this brilliant idea to just leave the auger in the discharge position.........bet you know what's next......

So out I go for another round and this took me past one of the poles....my first real challenge. I got the header around the pole and was patting myself on the back for an accomplished learning curve when I hear this ear shattering CRASH!!!!!!! What on earth could that be, I got the header past the pole......looked over my left shoulder and there it is just a DANGLiNG, my unloader auger.

In finishing the field, the owner held a piece of corrugated tin between the combine and the bin, forming a chute and I dumped into that. I let the thing sit and being a small town nearby, a local guy who was a semi-BTO at the time offered me $900 for it as it sat, where it sat. I gladly took it.

My next and last combine was a working unit, needing nothing really, MF 7 something...765 comes to mind....diesel engine, cab and air, 24' steel header and trailer. Nice rig. Enjoyed running that......you know there is just something about harvesting a crop in a combine that really just gets to you. Amazing feeling as surely you well know. The story about that was that I bought it South of Dallas and drove it 90 miles one Saturday to my farm NE of Dallas after having driven the 90 miles down to get it. That's another story as my son was supposed to be the wide load scout and he had other things on his mind. But I made it and that was that.

y combine trip was only 80 miles from NW Plano to S of Emory. "Only" incident was radiator damage as water pump dumped fan! Always gonna be something! That is far down the list from auger into power pole!

Keith Williams · Apr 19, 2021

When they delivered my combine ( A/C K), they had wired the auger in. I met the driver a few miles from the farm and had him follow me in.
Looked in the rear view mirror in horror as I saw the auger swing out and hit a tree and swing back and hit the combine. The wire had come loose.

Took a lot of beating and cussing but the auger worked.

We all have stories I bet.
Thanks for telling yours and listening to mine.
Keith

Texasmark1 · Apr 20, 2021

This one apparently does. There is a screw type device on top of the unit and I found that max one way increases the drop flow. Must be what it's for.

Texasmark1 · Apr 20, 2021

I had that happen on a road trip with a '65 Ford truck I6...the throw one half of one of the two pieces of steel used to make up the fan. I was lucky it only cut the top hose from the radiator to the engine.

Operating a single hose hyd. cylinder and removal

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