Another question on the 851 power steering

I went through the steering gear box and have that working well.
Power steering as a whole now works very well.
But after running it for 20 minutes or so I have PS fluid leaking
out of the reservoir cover. I'm assuming it is not as simple as a
new cover gasket because the fluid that leaks looks frothy.
I was considering putting new seals in the pump.
Does that sound like the right route to you guys?
If so, is this the Eaton pump that I see seal kits for?

You will probably never get a totally dry pump, but this probably help it quit a bit .Assuming this is a roller pump. Determine how much in and out play the shaft has . Split the pump into halves and in the bottom of the back half there should be a brass thrust washer. Take it out and put a washer, or something just shy of the thickness of the endplay behind and with the brass washer. Of course replace the seal in the front. NAPA has them. SKF 7443 . Replace the large and small o rings. You should have a good filter and retainer spring in the reservoir to keep oil swirl to a minimum as the breather, that little thing in the middle of the cap likes to leak oil. Have a good gasket for the lid, tap the side of the clamp while tightening the clamp will help center the clamp and lid on the reservoir as the inside groove of the clamp should be slightly v shaped HTH

Hi WayneIA, I am new to this forum and read your post on the power steering issue. I also have an issue on my 800. I have pressure and flow from the pump thru the control valve but when I try turning the steering wheel, I do not get any power to the cylinders and no restriction on the hyd flow or pressure. I have 0 pressure just running and when I start closing the needle valve on my hyd tester, I get good pressure, causing strain on the pump and belt slipping. Any ideas ? Might you know a repair shop/person who services these control valves ?? Thanks, Scott

I was reading another post on this and it said that Ford put out a bulletin years back that said to jack the front up and turn the steering wheel lock to lock at least 8 times to get all the air out. My steering worked fine until I put new seals in my box and when finished I had hard steering. I actually took mine back apart to see if I messed up, nothin wrong. I believe that any air in the cylinders will just compress, giving less push. I will try the lock to lock tomorrow and post back. Heres a post from another member on an 861 Ford about power steering, you can look back at the date he posted. There is also a picture of the valve that didnt go through when I copied it.
03:38 03/05/17
03:38 03/05/17 Ford 4 cylinder power steering Comment?
It is very common for leaks to occur in the power steering columns of these tractors. This is caused by seal failure.
The good news is they are very easy to repair. The bad news is you have to pull the tin off to get at the steering column.
First we will purge all of the old oil out of the system.
Start the tractor and crack the hydraulic lines that go to the cylinders.
Turn the wheel back and forth. Add fresh hyd oil as needed to get all the old stuff out of there.
Yes it makes a mess everywhere.
Remove the steering wheel.
Remove the tin.
Mark the hydraulic lines that go to the steering cylinders so you can get them back in the correct locations.
Remove the upper column tube #46.
Remove big nut, spring washer and upper bearing and races #31,42,43.
Remove the hydraulic block taking great care to not let the plungers, springs and balls fall out on the floor as you remove it #34.
Remove the lower adapter #29.
Now clean everything up.
Install new lower seal #28.
Spring side of seal goes up.
Install new upper seal #44.
Spring side goes down.
In a seperate small pan disassemble the hydraulic block. I use lacquer thinner for this. Remove all the plungers, springs and balls and the center spool. Remove any rust with crocus cloth or a Purple 3M scrubber pad. The purple ones are fairly soft. Get them at a body shop supply.
Green scrubber pads are too aggressive.
Inspect all 3 springs. Make sure they are not bent or broken.
Now is the time to decide if you want to do the whole job and not half of it.
Remove the lower steering box from the tractor clean out all the oil and crud in the bottom, inspect the sector gears, renew loose bushings, renew sector seals and inspect the bearing in the very bottom of the housing. I recommend you do but that's your call.
Getting back to the column here,
Install new paper gasket #24.
Install lower adapter with new seal.
Bolt it down.
Install lower bearing and races.
Install new Oring #32.
Lightly grease and reinstall center spool into hydraulic block. Inner groove on spool goes to bottom.
Set the block on column. See photo. Note that the extra fitting is on right side at top.
Now we will load the plungers.
Notice the hole that the pencil points to.
Install one special plunger with horns up.
Install 2 balls. Install second special plunger horns down.
Install one ordinary plunger, then one spring, then a second ordinary plunger in all three of the other holes.
Now install upper races, bearing, spring washer (curved down) and nut. Tighten nut down till the spring washer is completely flat - not too tight - then back it off 1/6 turn.
Now take a small punch and "stake" the thin upper part of the nut into the groove on the shaft. This is important as it keeps the nut from loosening.
Install another Oring #32 on top of the hydraulic block.
Install the upper tube being careful not to damage your new seal.
Bolt it down.
Reinstall all 6 hydraulic lines.
Add fresh oil to the reservoir.
I use 134 D oil - same Hytrans or UTF you use in your transmission and rear end.
Start the tractor and test your work before you put all the tin back on.
Now go have a cold one as you've earned it

I forgot to add, when you turn lock to lock you should hear the pump strain each way, that tells you that you have pressure

(quoted from post at 08:32:02 05/28/17) I forgot to add, when you turn lock to lock you should hear the pump strain each way, that tells you that you have pressure

Click to expand...

I have been working all morning on the tractor. I disconnected the cyl's from the steering arms to see if maybe the box was stiff. I have the front off the ground and the wheels turns fine
. I ran the tractor to see if the cylinders were going in the opposite direction of each other but working with the direction I'm turning the wheel. I reconnected the cyl to the arms and ran the tractor. The steering wheel turns harder with the cyl connected then not. Really strange. But, I am seeing some reaction on the steering tester gaauge now, it will go up to 200psi. I am installing this PS system from used parts.
Hope to figure it out soon. It is kicking this 63 yo retired man's butt.

Do you have a filter in the pump?

Yes. New. I have good flow. Took
15 seconds tp empty it today. Had to refill.
I have a shop manual but it does not go into detail on the pump or the control valve. Someone gave be a price for rebuilding the pump. But after running a pressure test on it the results were good pressure. I could not close the gauge valve all the way or it would drag the pulley/belt and squeal. I do not get any back pressure on the gauge when turning the wheel until I get to the end of the turn and bottom out. Then on ly about 150 to 200 psi. They are strange results.According to what I have read, with the tra ctor running, should have about a 100psi and while turning either direction, the pressure should go up higher.
I'm looking for more into on line but helpful information sites are limited. Regards..

I'll look in my manual, I believe you should have around 700 max pressure. You need to remember that the fluid flows through the circuit and is only used when you turn the wheel, any pressure not used at the cylinder is returned to the pump. Check your steering wheel axial movement, engine off (up and down). If your centering springs are good you should feel slight spring pressure when you move the steering wheel left or right and you will see the shaft move up or down and you can tell where the center is. The shaft moving up or down slightly is what moves the flow control spool to supply pressure one way or the other. I think someone else posted that it should move 1/32" from center either way. I think mine actually moves 1/8"and Ive seen other ones move more but steered fine without a loader on it.

Manual says pump should flow 7.5 gallons per minute at 1250 RPM output 1200 psi. There is only static pressure in the system when steering is in neutral position. I think the only way to pressure test the push on the cylinders is to plumb into one of the lines on the cylinder, that will tell you how much push you have. If you do that and the needle bounces after a push that would probably indicate air in the cylinder. Are your cylinders fairly tight? The other day when mine wouldnt steer good after installing the seals I found some slop in the joint on one cylinder that I could see pushing out. I drove the cap in and installed two 1.25" snap rings. Tightened it up good, but when i cranked it up and turned the wheel the same way it wouldnt push the cylinder out. It would push out the slop because that didnt take much effort, but thats all . I still think that it might just be air in your cylinders. You can compress air but not liquid. I'll try mine tomorrow. You might just want to walk away for a while and enjoy Sunday and Veterans Day. Thanks to all who served. Much learning is grievous. I dont know if you can put phone numbers on here.

Troubleshooting in manual says you might have a weak or broken spring in pump control valve or sticking valve. I would try the 8 turns lock to lock first. i had a tractor that I just chenged the cylinders on and it started rattilng the lines so bad it broke the pressure line. I cant remember what I did but it steers fine now.

You should turn it 20 times lock to lock with the engine off making sure you keep the fluid level FULL... Start it up and turn it off immediately :!: check fluid again. Start it up turn steering wheel lock to lock shut the engine off and check the fluid. If the fluid looks air bound let it set for a few hours start it up turn steering wheel lock to lock... Replete till the fluid does not look air bound even it it takes a day are so of repeated attemps ...

If the pump does not cry after the infinitival 20 times and start up lock to lock air bound fluid is notcher problem... There are two more ways to get the air out of the system

1) pull a vacuum on the reservoir.

1) remove the return hose at the reservoir plug off the return hose connection at the reservoir, put the return hose in a bucket to catch the fluid. Start the engine keep the reservoir full while turning the steering wheel lock to lock several times are until you see good clean new fluid out the return hose... Something you should do anytime you service the PS system...

When the fluid gets air bound are frothy as stated its difficult to get the air out of it, its not because air is trapped somewhere in the system its trapped in the fluid...

I know very little about the rotary valve under the steering wheel except that the steering shaft should move about 1/16 of and inch from a center position.

Thanks for the help hobo, I got mine steering better today but I think I might have to rebuild my pump. It seems like the pressure is too low for a good push, or I could have broken a spring in the flow control valve.

(quoted from post at 18:34:43 05/29/17) Thanks for the help hobo, I got mine steering better today but I think I might have to rebuild my pump. It seems like the pressure is too low for a good push, or I could have broken a spring in the flow control valve.

Click to expand...

I noticed when turning wheel right to left, the steering cylinders would not bottom out. Not retract all the way. I disconnected them from the arms and turned L and R some 20 times, making the pump sound off. I watched the pressure gauge and the pressure contiued to get better. Now, can someone explain how the steering should feel. The manual says "Power Assist Steering" Is the steering ability the same as a modern day car/truck or is it slower but still powerful..... I have never had PS on this 800 so I have no clue what to expect. Thanks for help.

It should fell pretty much like your vehicle. The power assist makes steering much easier. The control valve is made to allow steering even with the belt off. You can tell abig difference with the belt off. Of course it will steer easier rolling . With the system working very good you should be able to steer both ways easily with the tractor sitting still.

I dont know how good your cylinders are but if there is a lot of leakby on the inside pistons you will get less push. Did you check their resistance to pulling in and out before you installed?

They come close to all the way in when turning lock to lock. Do you have the original cylinder type?

I dont know about 1 finger turning but it should take a small amoumt of work from you doing the steering. Like I said, you can sure tell a big difference when you dont have the assist. Especially with a frontend loader with a load on it.

Sloppy cylinder ball joints will give you less steering push. Spray the end caps with blaster and see if they can be drove in a little. You can get a 1.25" inside snap ring behind the push marks if there is enough play. I actually got 2 snaprings in one joint. You can also drill and tap the ends for a 1/4-28 grease fitting but it needs to be nearer the stud end, especially if you have the nylon insert type.

Hobo, thanks for the advice. I've been waiting on parts.
They came in today. Filter, keeper and new reservoir gasket.
Man, they don't give that chit away! :shock:
All now installed and no more leaking from the reservoir.
NOW, I can address the air issue correctly.

I'm thinking I was the guy who posted the quote from the manual
that said a [i:5ea363c1bb]minimum[/i:5ea363c1bb] of 8 times lock to lock with the cylinders
disconnected. More certainly would not hurt.
Fluid level closely monitored of course. Waste of time otherwise.

This has all new seals in the steering gear box and PS control valve.
All new fluid again today. Drained and replaced as per the manual.
Works very well except at idle, which is when I really need it. Duh!