411b how to remove pto housing for shaft seals

While I replace my eagle hitch piston seals Ive been told to go ahead and do the pto shaft seal at the 4 speed trans case or ill be doing it later. So I already have the eagle hitch cover off.

How do I remove the pto housing on the rear? And any tricks to replacing the seal in the pto shaft at the 4 speed case? John Saeli sold me 2 seals to go in place of the original seal. He says it'll hold up better in the long run.

First drain the 90 weight rear differential oil. There should a series of bolts around the PTO housing, remove the bolts, then loosen the housing from
the rear end and remove PTO unit.
The seal can be difficult to remove, best tool is something that grabs the inside of the old seal and pulls it out of the housing.
Maybe the proper name for this tool is a ?slide hammer?. That is what worked for me.
Jim

If you do not have a slide hammer for seal removal, I would suggest using a Dremel tool with a straight shank 3/32inch burr. carefully grind into the side of the seal gently .seal will collapse .There should be two. Pay attention to their orientation. CM The reason I suggest the Dremel tool as it will allow you access into a very tight area.

Usually in life, 2 are better than 1, such as in the case of these seals. Not always though, such as bills in the mail, breakdowns, or wives, imagine dealing w/ 2 wives @ the same time.

I like the the way you think. But two wives would be nice for a day or so.

One definition of trouble: two women, one roof.

Last night I removed all the drain plugs and drained every drop of oil out of the tractor. Pulled the pto housing off and removed the pto drive shaft.

I have to admit that my seal arrangment does not look at all like the pictures. I have no roller bearing like pictured above. Just two seals and and brass bushing to support the shaft. Is it safe to say that because I have two seals already that somone has replacrd them once.

I attempted to remove the seals but it wasnt going well. So i three the towel in and figured tomorrows another day. So its 5:20 a..m. here in Pa and I'm off to help wheelbarrow 23 uards of concrete for a friends basement. Fun times. Wish me luck.

I have a 1961 430, so I am sure it is similar to yours. There are no roller bearings in the seal, just w seals in a metal cup that is pressed into the
housing. The tool that worked the best for me, to remove the old seal, was a slide hammer. I did everything else before, cutting etc. but it wouldn?t
budge.
Jim

I have a 1961 430, so I am sure it is similar to yours. There are no roller bearings in the seal, just w seals in a metal cup that is pressed into the
housing. The tool that worked the best for me, to remove the old seal, was a slide hammer. I did everything else before, cutting etc. but it wouldn?t
budge.
Jim

Sheeeesh young whippersnappers spending all your time fooling around with 2 wives probably drinking that girly diet beer instead of the dark brew and not use to doing a lick of real work. No wonder you're too weak to pull a couple of lipseals. Time for some edjumacation.

On 411B this is what we are working with. The brass bushing is pressed into the i.d. of the main shaft, the seal housing is pressed on the o.d. of the main shaft, the double lipped seal is pressed into the housing.


The factory double lipped seal is often replaced with 2 single lipped seals back to back with the lips facing opposite.


The seal housing press is a light interference fit so it can be removed to renew the brass bushing and then reinstalled. Housing reinstallation isn?t much fun. So using a slide hammer or other usual method of pulling the seals straight back is really iffy, a very good chance of pulling the housing along with the seal. The factory double lipped seal is very wide providing good grip on the housing and was staked.

The best way to pull seals in this type installation is with a pry bar like this pic. You can buy these pry bars in graduating sizes sets cheap. The width of the claw between the red lines should be wide enough that the sharp end can be placed inside the seal and the heel end resting on the metal part of the seal. Pry in different spots on the seal being careful not to score the housing. It is similar to pulling a nail with a claw hammer.


Factory seal in place, note the staking marks on the periphery. The seal sticks out of the housing a 1/8? or so. Replacement 2 seals will likely be the same so good idea to stake.
old seal in place You can just barely see the dimples in the brass bushing, that is for oil retention and wear indication.


To install new seals it is best to make up a long bar on your seal installer so you can start and tap the seals in place from the PTO opening, I use the 5/8? dia bar off a slide hammer for an extension. It?s really hard to start the seal straight from the top because the gears are in the way. If you start it crooked and try to tap it straight with a hammer it probably won?t seat properly and the next seal will make the seating worse. You might as well buy new seals and start over (don?t ask, many bad words, wrench throwing). You need good quality seals so they don?t flex so much on installation . I use National p/n 471192.


Dang after all the mental work writing this up, I think I?ll go rest up by wheelbarrowing some concrete and drinking some dark beer, after all it is Sat.

Joe

Yeah I'm a Susie. 5'4" 145 just a wee fella. Thanks for the other pictures. I think I realize whats going on there now. I just wanted to be sure I wasnt ruining anything along the way. My seal still looks a little different. Maybe replaced sometime ago with a slightly different style. I guess ill go grab the darkest lager I can find and reach down and turn my nuts on.

Well good news. Got the seal out. It was 2 seals encased in one metal outer casing. Took a couple hours and some chiseling and cutting and using my seal puller. Somehow managed to not mess up the housing except for some superficial marks on the leading edge of the opening.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned.. I dont think it was... But what kind of sealer can I use on my new seals when I'm installing them?

Two lips in one case is probably the original double lipped seal.

New seals usually have sealant on the o.d. like the red on the new seal above. I also use a light lubricant to ease insert.

On a dry seal I use a very light coat of nr 3 Permatex (aviation sealant) and install the seal wet in a lightly lubed bore. Don't let the Permatex or lube get tacky.

There are about as many opinions on what to use as there are people installing seals.

Joe